Overview and Logs for the Community Workgroup Meeting Held on 2017-06-18
June 18, 2017
Logs
<sgp_> @here the community meeting is starting now
<\x> whats this remaining time bullshit here
<sgp_> @urza[m] we are just starting a meeting, can you ask Reddit or come back in about an hour please? :)
<\x> @serhack: speak up
<\x> oh okay sorry
<\x> ill jst watch
<sgp_> Ok, starting the meeting!
<sgp_> 0. Introduction
<ArticMine> So we are starting the meeting
<sgp_> My friends @rehrar and @dEBRUYNE_1 and I would like to welcome you to the very first Monero Community meeting!
<pumppp> *grabs popcorn
<bgmrkbtc> yay!
<ArticMine> hi
<sgp_> Link to agenda on GitHub: https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/79
\AUTOMATED RESPONSE_> Community Meeting: 18 June 2017 18:30 UTC · Issue #79 · monero-project/meta
Location Freenode | OFTC | Slack | Irc2P #monero Time Use this timezone calculator to convert UTC to your time zone. GMT 18:30 ICT (Bangkok) 01:30 EDT (New York) 14:30 CDT (Dallas) 13:30 PDT (San…
<rehrar> What up peeps?
<serhack> Hello
<magic_circle> Hi!
<sgp_> Monero Community meetings intend to be a discussion place for anything going on in the Monero Community. We plan to use this meeting and future meetings to encourage the community to share ideas and provide support.
<cryptochangements> Hey errybody
<ajs> Sup
<serhack> Nice sgp_
<gingeropolous> wazaaaap
<antw081> i'm present
<Diffusive> aye
<sgp_> 1. Greetings (continued at this point haha)
<rehrar> a word if I may :)
<joelsolo99> Well, I'm here too
<bgmrkbtc> bgmrk reporting from Toronto Canada!
<sgp_> @rehrar yeah, sorry it blew up faster than I expected
<pumppp> Fluffy is missing
<ally> Hola compañoeros
<gym7rjm> Hi, I'm here too
<dEBRUYNE> urza[m]: If you need help, feel free to PM me
<rehrar> The idea for these community meetings arose from the fact that there is no place for the community to share their thoughts and ideas. We have dev meetings, and we'd rather not take up their time as they have important code stuff to go over.
<rehrar> But at the same time, Monero is nothing without the community. So we organized these meetings, and we will be collecting feedback on them afterwards.
<vdo> ack
<serhack> Monero is based on community
<rehrar> We want to improve this to a place where the community can have a voice as to the happenings of Monero
<rehrar> So feel free to participate. This meeting will be a bit informative in nature. SGP got some stuff planned.
<rehrar> take it away dude
<gingeropolous> semantics, but there's a place (#monero, anywhere)… there's just not a time when everyones online together :)
<sgp_> last chance for greetings!
<cryptochangements> @rehrar sounds like s good idea, props for setting it up guys :)
<Skorpion7777> Hi guys!
<serhack> Hi
<mowwy> 0/
<rbrunner> Hello
<rehrar> we have good attendance! :)
<sgp_> @dEBRUYNE is helping us here also. The community would be so much worse without him and the work he does
<pumppp> I'm bringing in the whole telegram army
<dEBRUYNE> :)
<0ak3y22> Hi
<thefuzzstone> @dEBRUYNE – +1
<sgp_> Ok, moving on. Thanks everyone for coming
<sgp_> 2. Explanation of Monero Community Values and Goals
<sgp_> Monero is more than just an open-source project. It’s a project of extreme significance. It is the best implementation of privacy in digital money today.
<sgp_> For Monero to be truly impactful, a lot of work still needs to happen. Developers will always be needed to improve Monero’s efficiency, speed, and privacy. New communities in different languages must form. And of course, more people need to use Monero, if only to increase the anonymity set.
<sgp_> With more interest in Monero brings more development. This means more eyes auditing the code, more people giving local presentations about Monero, and more people understanding the underlying technology. Most importantly, it gives these people a choice of digital economic freedom.
<sgp_> The goals of this unofficial, casual group are still to be determined. However, the ultimate goal is providing Monero with the resources needed to be technologically advanced and adopted by a significant number of people. We hope to organize more individual campaigns in the future, such as one to market Kovri.
<sgp_> Anything unclear or contentious?
<bgmrkbtc> nope
<p0nziph0ne> nö
<serhack> nope
<ally> nix
<antw081> agreed
<Diffusive> right
<pumppp> Kovri meaning?
<bgmrkbtc> "Monero’s efficiency, speed, and privacy" noticed usability isn't listed, are these things you just pulled out of your head as exampleS?
<rehrar> I will be talking about Kovri later in the meeting pumppp :)
<Diffusive> Kovri is the implementation of i2p on Monero
<sgp_> @bgmrkbtc good catch. I simply forgot it
<bgmrkbtc> nice
<Diffusive> Hides your IP…
<sgp_> Yes, Monero should be easy to use
<pumppp> Cool @rehrar
<ArticMine> and universal
<bgmrkbtc> usability i think is most imporatant (assuming devs believe code is ready to scale)
<pumppp> @Diffusive, Nice, more privacy
<sgp_> 3. Local Activity and News
<sgp_> I want to begin by congratulating the latest three Forum Funding System proposals for being fully funded! Thank you to those who created the proposals, and thank you to those who donated. Approximately $65,000 (equivalent) was raised in about 6 hours with 62 contributions.
<sgp_> https://forum.getmonero.org/8/funding-required/87789/mooo-full-time-july-september (edited)
<sgp_> https://forum.getmonero.org/8/funding-required/87734/monero-integrations-with-web-apps (edited)
<serhack> :slightly_smiling_face:
<sgp_> https://forum.getmonero.org/8/funding-required/87757/funding-for-a-monero-subforum-on-the-largest-chinese-btc-forum-8btc
<vdo> I arrived late one more time! what happens with the overfunded xmr?
<serhack> thanks community
<Diffusive> it's awesome that people are fully into Monero, supporting initiatives
<rbrunner> 你好
<antw081> overfund goes to general dev fund i think
<ally> hen hao
<Diffusive> vdo, it stays in the funding wallet
<rehrar> vdo, typically, an overfunded project goes to general fund
<pumppp> @antw081, Returned back?
<{-adhiyana}> Is there a need for Esperanto translation
<Diffusive> ni hao ;)
<vdo> k thanks
<sgp_> @vdo overfunded can go to the overfunded project or reallocated to other projects at the core team's discretion
<rehrar> Congrats community! this is big.
<vdo> Esperanto is must :)
<ArticMine> I agree
<ally> esperanto +1
<cryptochangements> What about moneromooo's FFS, shouldn't he get the extra funds for that?
<ajs> Pirate speak +1
<rehrar> it can probably be discussed on a case by case basis
<pumppp> Hindi too
<rehrar> but that's not up to me, I guess. :)
<sgp_> @pumppp news later about that
<pumppp> +1
<sgp_> I want to discuss some local activity going on with Monero in June and July. It is important that local communities exist to discuss Monero. These groups make it easier for new members to learn about Monero in a more personal setting.
<sgp_> There should be a meeting next week in Edinburgh, UK on June 22 or 23. The meetup is approaching quickly, and I still need to plan the last details. If anyone knows someone from this area, please let me know after the meeting. There were some logistical issues when trying to coordinate with their local Bitcoin group that only became apparent after I had committed to going there :/
<bgmrkbtc> what do you envision from local meetups? just sit and discuss? or presentations?
<dEBRUYNE> Imo it'd be prudent to sent back overfunded XMR to the core-team's donation address, such that they can contribute in future proposals as well
<sgp_> There will be a meetup in Dublin, Ireland on June 26. I am still choosing the location https://www.meetup.com/Bitcoin-Dublin/events/240152422/ (edited)
<sgp_> There will be a meetup in Barcelona, Spain on July 10.
<sgp_> There will be a meetup in Brussels, Belgium on July 12 https://www.meetup.com/Blockchain-Brussels/events/240786181/ (edited)
<thefuzzstone> Yep, agree about local communities (I'm form Monero-RU team), at July at /r/Monero will be publish our next report about our work
<sgp_> There will be a meetup in Berlin, Germany on July 13 https://www.meetup.com/Monero-Berlin/events/240704245/ (edited)
<rehrar> The new website will have an Events page where all of these can be put on and updated easily, btw. :)
<sgp_> And those are all I know about for now :)
<Skorpion7777> Meetup in berlin. Thats awesome!
<bgmrkbtc> is new website up yet?
<gym7rjm> Anything planned in the US this summer??
<vdo> @sgp_ about the Barcelona one, is it going to happen? Last news were it was cancelled
<rehrar> not yet. Soon. :)
<Beispielhaft> Are those meetups on a regular basis?
<serhack> yeah Beispielhaft
<bgmrkbtc> it is important to have meetups be as regular as possible, it just takes 2 people to meet up at the same spot on a regular basis to form a community
<pumppp> @rehrar, Soon what?
<rehrar> Monero is an initiative-based project. If we want meetups in the US, someone can organize
<Diffusive> @rehrar, will be cool to have it, Mozilla have something similar, since i'm part of that community i can ask them about the soft
<rehrar> anyone can do it
<sgp_> @vdo that's a different Barcelona meetup. I'm talking to a different Barcelona group and they are getting the details finalized
<Beispielhaft> nice
<ajs> I will be in Houston and was think about doing one in July/August
<rehrar> I was asked about the website pumppp, and I said it'll be up soon
<vdo> great, I will keep posted
<sgp_> It's much easier and cheaper for me to speak when I'll already be there anyway
<bgmrkbtc> I don't think there are any dedicated to monero yet in toronot
<pumppp> @rehrar, That's great, shiny new armour
<Diffusive> Soon(tm)
<rehrar> ^
<sgp_> If you live in a city that has not had a local Monero meetup yet, seriously just start one yourself. I will write a guide around the end of the summer explaining some of the tricks I have used, but it’s easy and beneficial to meet at a bar once a month and talk.
<sgp_> It doesn't need to be anything formal to start
<rehrar> You don't even have to talk about Monero.
<ally> About the meetups, are they bitcoin meetups with a monero section or all-monero
<ally> ?
<rehrar> Dash is the only topic that is banned
<sgp_> So take the pressure off and just have fun talking with people about Monero!
<pumppp> @rehrar, Lol
<Diffusive> kek
<bgmrkbtc> @rehrar lol
<greycrasan> on the world map of nodes i saw one more node in my country besides me :D
<Diffusive> zca$h is allowed?
<sgp_> @ally most of these meetups are about Monero at a Bitcoin/Blockchain meetup, but soem are at dedicated Monero groups (like the Berlin one)
<rehrar> only if it's praise Diffusive
<greycrasan> i want to meet that other guy
<cryptochangements> Diffusive sure if you want to tell people not to do
<rehrar> serious answer
<sgp_> Unless anyone else has any Monero events to share, we can move on
<rehrar> we obviously have no way or desire to control your conversations that you have when you come together
<bgmrkbtc> Looking forward to that guide @sgp_
<pumppp> I see there isn't much of any Mondeo events in Asia?
<rehrar> @ajs, we can talk about Houston :) if someone else comes from that section
<pumppp> Monero*
<sgp_> @pumppp not yet!
<ArticMine> The 8BTC proposal may help with that
<gym7rjm> AsianHouseShrew is from Singapore and mentioned he was trying to get something together
<pumppp> Ok , soon
<sgp_> There definitely should be though. With the new FFS proposal and new translations coming in, it should be easier to get people interested in Monero
<cryptochangements> Anyone know how soon the 8BTC thing will be implemented?
<Diffusive> pumppp i hope with that FFS of the 8BTC will be more in Asia
<sgp_> @cryptochangements no idea, sorry
<sgp_> 4. The Kovri Opportunity
<pumppp> @cryptochangements, It will enable XMR to get launched in many Chinese exchanges I hope so
<Diffusive> i can't do something like this in Venezuela because it's kinda ilegal
<bgmrkbtc> @diffusive safety first
<sgp_> ^ +1
<sgp_> I’m going to pass this part about Kovri off to rehrar, who is probably the only person more excited for Kovri than me.
<Diffusive> I can do speaks at teach events, but about the teach, so i'll look into it
<Diffusive> tech*
<rehrar> Aight dudes, Kovri.
<rehrar> https://github.com/monero-project/kovri
<sgp_> To those who don't know, Kovri will hide the transaction broadcast for Monero in I2P (similar to Tor). It will protect your IP and increase censorship resistance
<rehrar> Kovri is a fork of i2pd, and is a C++ implementation of the Java I2P router
<bgmrkbtc> so it will be directly integrated into monero? or work on top of it?
<rehrar> They will be integrated into each other
<bgmrkbtc> nice
<rehrar> so Kovri will help the I2P network and I2P will help Monero
<bgmrkbtc> would that slow down the monero network?
<rehrar> basically, when you send a transaction, I2P will hide your IP address, increasing privacy
<rehrar> and in turn, Monero wallets will act as I2P nodes
<cryptochangements> So will there be a general API for kovri that monero uses or will there be extra work to get it to work specifically with monero?
<rehrar> increasing the security of both networks
<bgmrkbtc> also, why I2p rather than tor?
<vdo> at some point, kovri will be bundled with monero and it will be mandatory, right?
<Diffusive> Monero will work on top of Kovri
<rehrar> That's a good question. They're two different protocols, and @anonimal breaks it down pretty well
<BonAmiko> Isn't I2P currently weak due to low usage?
<pumppp> Tor has loopholes
<rehrar> Tor has some elements of centralization, such as DNS
<rehrar> hold up, lemme grab the link
<sgp_> Lots of great questions, everyone
<Diffusive> Kovri will have an API that will work with other software or standalone, and the same with Monero.
<ArticMine> The transactions are sent over I2P
<pumppp> Kovri ETA ?
<rehrar> https://forum.getmonero.org/9/work-in-progress/86967/anonimal-s-kovri-full-time-development-funding-thread
<amuralikumar> Yes.i2p is less I'm usage.
<rehrar> read over anonimal's proposal
<Diffusive> ArticMine, yep
<ArticMine> but the node synchronizes over clear net to avoid attacks
<bgmrkbtc> so IP addresses of all nodes could be collected?
<rehrar> I2P also has a few differences from Tor. They're not the same, and they don't access the same hidden services
<sgp_> There will be an API for Kovri that any project can use, including (but not limited to) Monero
<ArticMine> So the Monero node has to act as a router
<pumppp> @Diffusive, Does that mean kovri can be used with other Altcoins too?
<rehrar> But here's the cool thing. And the reason I'm super excited about Kovri.
<rehrar> Kovri will not just be for Monero
<Diffusive> The only privacy weak point of Monero is just that, your IP is used when sent to the tx
<rehrar> anyone can download it and use it, even if they have never heard of Monero
<bgmrkbtc> kovri plug in for browser? rather than stand along browser?
<Olufunmilayo> can you still use tor instead of i2p if you @wanted to or will tor use with monero be impossible?
<bgmrkbtc> *alone
<rehrar> There are currently no plans for a Kovri browser, but that could change depending on developers :)
<Diffusive> pumppp, yes, you can work with Kovri in another stuff, just like Tor or i2pd
<bgmrkbtc> so kovri is like the final piece of the privacy puzzle for now?
<rehrar> Kovri is unlike anything I've encountered in the cryptospace, because it's the only semi-alturistic offering I've ever seen from a crypto project
<rehrar> Anyone will be able to use the Kovri router, regardless of Monero usage
<Diffusive> Remember that when you use this kind of software you're redirecting the traffic to SOCKS, you can control just an app like Firefox, to work with it and the other with your normal network
<pumppp> @rehrar, Anyone apart from XMR community working on kovri?
<rehrar> and given enough time, a browser bundle and more is not out of the question
<Beispielhaft> sounds awesome!
<rehrar> it has the potential to strengthen the I2P network, and give another Privacy option for people who have no voice across the world
<rehrar> pumppp, not to my knowledge no
<bgmrkbtc> how far long roughly is kovri development? i know that's a hard question to answer. What is currently possible with kovri?
<rehrar> It was stated before that the Alpha is close
<gym7rjm> How much will Kovri increase bandwidth for someone running a monero node assuming this really takes off and rivals Tor? Also, will there be a way to limit what traffic gets routed through your node? I wouldnt want general hidden internet traffic, I would prefer just monero txns…
<rehrar> that was about a month ago
<rehrar> that's a good question gym7rjm, and I don't know
<rehrar> everyone is free to go to #kovri and ask questions
<Beispielhaft> btw is this an offical cooperation with the i2p guys?
<ally>
<sgp_> @bgmrkbtc alpha release soon^TM , but you can download some test binaries now. Alpha will let you connect to I2P network, but not have any integration with Monero
<rehrar> We're not on bad terms, to my knowledge
<gym7rjm> @rehrar thx Ill go ask in #kovri
<rehrar> yeah, feel free to go to getkovri.org
<p0nziph0ne> will kovri mandatory, or enabled by default, but possible to disable in the wallet gui?
<gethhh APP> arent we to paranoid with hiding ip address ?
<Diffusive> i'm exited with this chat ;) great questions guys <3
<magic_circle> love the mutual benefit for both projects
<bgmrkbtc> So 3rd party wallets will be forced to use kovri or make it an option?
<rehrar> probably enventually mandatory, but I guess there are more discussions to be had as Kovri progresses
<rehrar> that's a good point @bgmrkbtc
<Diffusive> gethhh, people want full privacy.
<fluffypony> gethhh: too paranoid??
<sgp_> @gym7rjm yes, traffic can be limited. With the help of fluffy blocks, bandwidth usage should only increase by a little bit
<rehrar> We want there to be ZERO weak points in the privacy of Monero
<fluffypony> have you met my friend, the state-grade attacker?
<gethhh APP> well I see it as an option for some people not mandatory
<rehrar> And if there is a weakness, we want to find a solution
<cryptochangements> gethhh you can never be too paranoid
<rehrar> even if we make it from scratch ;)
<Diffusive> What's the point of having all the monero stuff confidential, but they can trace your IP and f*ck you up then…
<bgmrkbtc> Does monero devs offer any bounties?
<Diffusive> @bgmrkbtc, yes
<rehrar> there is a bounty for responsibly exploiting Kovri
<Diffusive> There's a hackerone too
<Diffusive> For monero
<rehrar> again, for more info, see getkovri.org or ask questions in #kovri
<sgp_> To prevent this from getting too side-tracked (though it is good discussion), let's limit the Q&A until the end and let @rehrar get back to how Kovri can help the Monero community
<rehrar> it's honestly one of the most exciting projects, and I'm thrilled that Monero is tackling this big thing
<cryptochangements> ^ +1
<Diffusive> Remember that there's a Kovri meetup too.
<rehrar> Because Kovri is being offered not just as a Monero thing, any coin can take it and implement it
<joelsolo99> My opinion is that if Kovri isn't mandatory then using it would seem suspicious
<rehrar> it's actually made to be quite light-weight, and so is good to build applications on top of
<pumppp> @rehrar, I will only accept XMR as completely private when it makes me invisible when I log into the wallet
<rehrar> I2P has a LOT of things that go in it, and Kovri strips it all down to the barebones
<rehrar> making sure to keep the privacy without all the addons
<gethhh APP> @fluffypony i guess i did more than once , still i think origin anonymisation is nice but should be optional, but that just my opinion
<rehrar> optional isn't a good idea
<TinusMars> optional?
<rehrar> because it makes any tx that DOES use it seem suspicious
<TinusMars> bad idea
<rehrar> but if every tx uses it, then nothing is suspicious
<fluffypony> gethhh: it is optional
<fluffypony> you can run in IPv4-only mode
<rehrar> or everything is suspicious equally
<fluffypony> TinusMars: nope, not with this
<pero>